On this episode, Jon Maddux speaks with Productivity Coach and Top-Producing Realtor, Tina King. Tina has over 26 years of experience selling Real Estate and is known for her ability to drastically increase production on an individual and company basis.
"Million Dollar Results" With Tina King, As Featured On FundLoans' Vlog "The Million Dollar Mortgage Experience"
Here's The Transcription
Speaker 1: 00:00 On this episode, Jon Maddux speaks with productivity coach and top producing realtor Tina King. Tina has over 26 years of experience selling real estate and is known for her ability to drastically increase production on an individual and company basis.
Speaker 1: 00:18 Listen closely as the two speak about how you can hack your schedule, get attention on LinkedIn and much, much more.
Speaker 2: 00:26 Welcome to the Million Dollar Mortgage Experience Podcast. Listen in as CEO, Jon Maddux of Fund Loans reveals and tips, secrets and origination ideas, and fill your pipeline with the million dollar opportunity.
Jon Maddux: 00:40 Welcome to the show. I'm here with Tina King. How are you doing today, Tina?
Tina King: 00:46 I'm great. How are you?
Jon Maddux: 00:47 Doing great. It's fun... the sun's finally out so it's made a...
Tina King: 00:50 Its been a little toasty the last couple of days for sure.
Jon Maddux: 00:52 It has, and we've needed it. I know we needed a rain here in California, but sun is also needed, so that's good.
Tina King: 00:58 It was getting a little on the depressed side there for a minute.
Jon Maddux: 01:00 It does. It affects your mood, right?
Tina King: 01:01 It does.
Jon Maddux: 01:03 Being in cloudy days all the time.
Tina King: 01:04 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 01:05 Does that affect... I know as a coach... I mean it affects people's mood. So moods affect sales, right? Tell us about how that might correlate.
Tina King: 01:14 My first rule is you can't be moody, get over yourself, right?
Jon Maddux: 01:18 Yeah.
Tina King: 01:19 Cloudy or raining or whatever we're going through. We have to keep going. We don't keep moving through it.
Jon Maddux: 01:25 Yeah. It kind of comes back to you actually taking charge of your own reality or your own life. Right?
Tina King: 01:33 One of my mentors said, whether it be a cloudy day or pressure or things aren't working right, you just press harder.
Jon Maddux: 01:40 Right.
Tina King: 01:40 You press through it. That's what I teach.
Jon Maddux: 01:43 That's good.
Tina King: 01:44 It's hard, but it's doable.
Jon Maddux: 01:46 Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Tina King: 01:48 Okay. So do you want to know the business side of me or the personal side of me?
Jon Maddux: 01:52 Let's hear a little about the business side.
Tina King: 01:56 [inaudible 00:01:56] almost 27 years now in the business. I started out in Arizona. Keller Williams came to town, and we all joined them. We were with a company called Realty Executives at the time. I was in alignment with another top producer there, and I was fairly new at the time, so I was his buyer's agent.
Jon Maddux: 02:11 Okay.
Tina King: 02:12 We all went over to Keller Williams. I was anti-education and anti-coaching at the time.
Jon Maddux: 02:20 You were?
Tina King: 02:20 Yeah. I wasn't into it. It wasn't for me. I just wanted to go, go, go. I'm super type A.
Jon Maddux: 02:24 Yeah.
Tina King: 02:26 So then what happened was, I was very successful and doing really well. Keller has a big educational model, right?
Jon Maddux: 02:33 Yeah.
Tina King: 02:34 I started kind of paying attention and cause people were passing me up in production, and I started paying attention to that, and I thought to myself, maybe I should look into this. So I started getting into it and learning the systems and the models and how to run a true business versus just seat on my pants. And it literally lit my business on fire.
Jon Maddux: 02:52 Wow.
Tina King: 02:53 Then I started building my own team after a certain time. I've aligned myself with other professionals throughout the years, as business partners. I'm kind of a team player, so I really like to do things with other people versus just the loan ranger person that a lot of people like to be. To me, together we're more successful. So that always worked out well for me.
Tina King: 03:12 Anyway, I became like a productivity coach with them. That's fast forward quite a few years, and we created that model, around some other people across the nation that were trying some things out. And I sat down with my, at the time, team leader at the Keller Williams office, and we put our heads together on that. We created this model, and we just tried it. And within a year, the company dollar just went through the roof. We increased it by, I don't remember what the percentage was, but it was pretty high. Then The National, Keller Williams took notice and made it part of their model and then some other great folks at maps coaching took it to a whole nother level, and it just went crazy from there. So I'm pretty proud of that.
Jon Maddux: 03:55 Yeah.
Tina King: 03:56 Is My name on a plaque somewhere because of it? No, it's okay. I was part of that chain that needed to happen to create that model, and we made it very successful. I'm pretty excited about that. That was really good lift in my career. It catapulted me into more of the management, more coaching. Took me out of sales at that point.
Tina King: 04:17 I did that for almost 10 years with different companies throughout, coaching and leading regional management, management, growing companies. My favorite is turnarounds, when there's a company in trouble.
Jon Maddux: 04:32 Yep.
Tina King: 04:33 My favorite is turnarounds and there's one specific one that was not doing well here in San Diego, doing well in other parts of the country. We are literally number 41 out of 41...
Jon Maddux: 04:43 Wow.
Tina King: 04:44 ... Offices in the nation. I got in the seat and took it from a negative million in revenue to eight and a half million in revenue in the first year.
Jon Maddux: 04:50 Awesome.
Tina King: 04:51 So there's different ways that I was able to accomplish that coming from a strong Keller Williams background. That was really helpful for me.
Jon Maddux: 04:57 That's awesome. Is that the only time you've done that? Where you've taken a company from negative to positive or have you gone around and done that with other companies?
Tina King: 05:07 I've done a start up. Not a start up, but a start up in a row in a region from another company is very successful in Las Vegas and they were doing pretty well in Orange County and then they decided they wanted San Diego.
Tina King: 05:18 I started San Diego from the ground up, finding the offices, the leasing, the recruiting. I was also a branch manager, got it to a certain level of success and then they handed the baton to someone else, which is fine.
Jon Maddux: 05:31 Yeah.
Tina King: 05:32 Then that took me back into the market of sales at that moment. But I was okay with that. I did get it to a level of success, probably not where they want it, but I did get it to a place where now somebody else could take it to the next level.
Jon Maddux: 05:45 That's cool. There's certain strengths people have, right? Like some people are starters, and some people are growers, and some people are managers, and some people can sustain something great.
Tina King: 05:57 That's boring.
Jon Maddux: 05:58 Yeah. That's boring for some people. Some people might love it, but for someone like you, I can see where your drive, and your ambition is what drives you to grow things, right?
Tina King: 06:08 The challenge. Right?
Jon Maddux: 06:09 Yeah. And turn things around right. From a negative point.
Tina King: 06:12 Its totally a challenge. I love that part of it. It is hard on me, but I think it would be boring if it wasn't.
Jon Maddux: 06:18 Yeah.
Tina King: 06:18 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 06:19 That's cool. So you sold a lot of homes. You've worked with a ton of realtors, like you said. What would you say is kind of like a theme across a bunch of salespeople? What is a theme of something that's actually changed their business? Is there, I wouldn't say like a secret, but is there something that really makes a difference kind of across, hundreds of people that you've done? Is it a mindset? Is it just working harder? Is there something that's kind of a theme to the success?
Tina King: 06:51 The goal is to not work harder of course. Some people think it is, they want to go forward like a ball, and they think it'll just all work out and everything's breaking around them.
Jon Maddux: 07:00 Right?
Tina King: 07:00 They'll have some success, but they'll end up burning out. And so really, the educational piece that I learned, obviously the proper training, right?
Jon Maddux: 07:10 Right.
Tina King: 07:11 There's a level of people out there, or a class of people in our industries that will get stuck in the training side. Like, the perpetual student.
Jon Maddux: 07:20 Right?
Tina King: 07:21 Why they get stuck there, I don't really know. They may not have the success level that others will take. I believe in taking a sip of education and going out and trying it and failing.
Jon Maddux: 07:31 Yeah. You gotta fail. Yeah.
Tina King: 07:33 There'll be some success in that as well. But failure is part of it, right? Failing Forward by John Maxwell. It's a great book. The common theme for Change and for them to get it, is the education piece. Making sure they're trained. Now you've got some top producers and then you've got a whole nother level below that. Right? So it's a different mentality. You've got great mindset for the most part, on the top end because they've already done the education piece, they've got the confidence level, they've got the success under their belt, they've got the performance habits, they've got those things.
Jon Maddux: 08:03 Right.
Tina King: 08:03 Where they need work, is just consistency and leverage. Like we talked earlier before we went online about get the housekeeper, buy your groceries online, plan your family vacations, don't mow over your family because divorce happens.
Tina King: 08:19 So there's some balancing act that we have to do at the top. Right. And I also believe education doesn't stop for the top producer.
Jon Maddux: 08:27 Continued.
Tina King: 08:27 Yeah. Your mid level folks in San Diego, I would say your people doing six to maybe 20 transactions, somewhere in that range, those folks are in need of some assistance, they are in need of some education around business, P and L, setting up a real business and making sure that they're doing and putting in systems in place and maybe hiring their first assistant. So there's a level there that we want to look at. We call them tiers. I'm actually a coach at this time with an organization called Club Wealth.
Jon Maddux: 08:59 Okay.
Tina King: 08:59 We do everything in tiers. I'm in tier three now with my business partner, Siri Raul. We're in Tier three coaching. What that is, is a certain level of transactions. A tier four coach is our coach. So they've been there where we were in there, they're above us. So there's different needs at each level. Our level now is recruiting. So at a tier three level, 75 plus transactions.
Jon Maddux: 09:24 How important is it to get a personal assistant? Let's say you're just a high producing loan officer, or even you're just a mid level producing loan officer, do you think that by hiring yourself an assistant, even though you maybe can't afford it yet or you can't... you don't maybe have a full time job for them yet? Is that a smart thing to do?
Tina King: 09:44 Yes.
Jon Maddux: 09:45 Tell us why.
Tina King: 09:46 Why? Because you need that time leverage, and you need to clear your mind, so you can do the dollar productive activities.
Jon Maddux: 09:51 Right.
Tina King: 09:52 I'm kind of a handy person. So just a quick example of my life, I had some ring flood lights I wanted to put up. I could do it pretty easy, but if they sat in the box for six months, I hired an electrician, paid him $125, and I stood there and watched him do it while I was, setting up a listing appointment.
Jon Maddux: 10:10 Right.
Tina King: 10:13 You got to make those kinds of decisions and it may mean more time with your family, right?
Jon Maddux: 10:17 Yeah. Which is priceless.
Tina King: 10:19 Right? It is priceless. So by me not doing the grocery shopping for an hour, hour and a half, whatever that is, I can be home with them, having a nice meal or whatever. So you gotta think that through and yes, spend a little money because you're going to make a lot more. Just cut out all the fat of life.
Jon Maddux: 10:37 It's important.
Tina King: 10:38 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 10:38 That's good. Some of us it takes that extra push like, okay, do it. Go get an assistant or hire somebody because like you said, a lot of us are hands on people. We do... I'll just do it myself. But then if we do that and we continue to do that, we never have a chance to grow or to scale or leverage. Like you said, that's very good advice.
Tina King: 11:00 Well, I just want you to know I learned that the hard way because I'm the one who wants to fix it all. Do it all, be it all, right. I'm not for the attention of it, but just that's how I'm wired.
Jon Maddux: 11:07 Right. You are a doer.
Tina King: 11:07 It's been really hard. My business partner, Siri Raul... actually me being a coach and helping others with that has been great. But I need a coach too. And so I have one plus Siri, my business partner, she's more systems focused. We probably have one of the best set up business organizations for a small organization than I've seen in some of even the largest companies I've run.
Tina King: 11:27 I've run some of the largest companies in the nation and I'm telling you, I have a realtor that I'm aligned with now and this goes for the mortgage process with teams or whatever. Make sure you have systems in place for the business side to leverage your time as well.
Johnny: 11:42 Technology.
Tina King: 11:43 Yeah. Technology, whether it be a really robust CRM or an automatic drip systems, just that simple kind of stuff that many people don't even know. Your sphere of influence, how do you stay in touch with the people that you've already done business with?
Tina King: 11:57 Depending on whether you're on the broker side or wherever you're at. So yeah. You have to have those systems or you're not going to do it, you're going to just think about it. It's just gonna take up way too much mind share for you.
Jon Maddux: 12:06 Right. The last podcast we did Johnny was I'm with someone who really preached that you should get a coach. So if you're in the mortgage business and you're a mortgage broker, he was like, you need a coach. He's like, that's one of my biggest pieces of advice is get a coach. What do you know? We have a coach here sitting here.
Johnny: 12:28 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 12:29 So...
Tina King: 12:29 Right on hire me. I'm just kidding.
Jon Maddux: 12:32 Tell us why. He told us a little bit why, I'd love to hear from a coach's perspective. Why is it worth the money to hire a coach?
Tina King: 12:41 Well, firstly before we go there, a coach, what kind of coach?
Jon Maddux: 12:47 Right. Well, business sales coach.
Tina King: 12:49 I think the mistake is, it's not a one size fits all. And so you can go to, and I'm not going to name company names, but there's a coaching organization that's pretty big and basically all they're going to say to you is how many calls did you make? How many this? how many of that? What are you going to do differently next week?
Jon Maddux: 13:05 Right.
Tina King: 13:06 And that's as far as it goes. Maybe that's the type of coach somebody needs. There're other coaches that will dig into the systems. So I believe that you elevate from one style of coach to another at the lower level of production, excuse me, of salespeople, whether it be in mortgage or in real estate, I would say you need that accountability coach.
Tina King: 13:28 You need somebody who's going to kick you in the butt and just to put it all together for you on the other question you asked me. For all levels, consistency is what helps people get to the next place.
Jon Maddux: 13:39 Consistency.
Tina King: 13:39 Consistency in the right activities, right? So it's very simple. So that coach may be that person to instill that in them and help them build the right habits. The next level might be that mid range where now we're teaching or coaching, excuse me, and teaching, because coaches do teach, the systems and the leverage and how to hire properly and those kinds of things. So you have to find that kind of coach for the level that you're at and the level you want to get to. So that to me is very important cause people will say, coaching didn't work for me. Well what did they do? Well, they just told me to make calls. Okay, well I make my calls already. Okay, well then that wasn't the right coach or maybe the right coaching organization.
Jon Maddux: 14:17 Sure.
Tina King: 14:17 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 14:18 That's good.
Tina King: 14:18 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 14:19 I mean you think even like the top, top people that you can think of, like Tony Robbins has a coach. So coaches even have coaches, right. Cause you believe in that, you believe that's gonna help you do what you need to do. I think for a lot of people out there that might be like, oh, I don't need a coach. Right. They blow it off. But we're not here selling anything. I'm not trying to push anyone's coaching.
Tina King: 14:43 No.
Jon Maddux: 14:44 I've personally had a coach maybe once in my life. I don't have one right now, but it's certainly something I'm thinking about doing. I'm thinking of getting myself an assistant. So if you guys know anyone that's a great assistant, please send them my way. But also a coach, like someone that can really get me to the next level, because we all can improve. The Sky's the limit. I think that's great advice.
Tina King: 15:08 Your coach needs to also, show you what a great assistant is. Someone could walk in here and you're like, I love that person. They are so awesome. They're like me. Don't hire them. Right.
Jon Maddux: 15:21 Because you need someone not like you. Right.
Tina King: 15:23 Right.
Jon Maddux: 15:23 Yeah.
Tina King: 15:23 There's some assessments out there like the DiSC, that are helpful for those kinds of things. And they can teach you, if they know their stuff, what you need to look for in that hiring process.
Jon Maddux: 15:35 Or an assistant. That's good. That's really good. So let's talk about... I mean I think our viewers really interested in referrals. Where do we do jumbo loans? We're trying to find jumbo loans out there.
Jon Maddux: 15:49 People buy leads, people go obviously go to the regular low hanging fruit, like go find their local agent and try to get referrals from them. What is some cool places that you've seen agents get referrals from or mortgage people getting referrals.
Tina King: 16:05 It doesn't matter the business. Okay. So the first line I was going to say out of my mouth was, I'm never too busy for your referrals.
Jon Maddux: 16:11 Right. That's a good line. I've seen that on people's signatures, right?
Tina King: 16:15 Right.
Jon Maddux: 16:15 Is that a Brian Buffini thing?
Tina King: 16:17 It is Brian Buffini but it works. It's not the only... that's just the tip of the iceberg or what needs to be done.
Jon Maddux: 16:23 Right.
Tina King: 16:24 So in building a referral business, it's a longer growth to do that.
Jon Maddux: 16:30 Right.
Tina King: 16:30 Everybody wants the now business.
Jon Maddux: 16:33 The now loans.
Tina King: 16:34 So there are many top producers that I've coached that have no clue about how to get referrals. Some just come to them just because they've been in the business and they've helped the generations of the family and it just happens. But they are not taking a proactive approach towards their database that they have a gold mine in already. It's a huge mistake and they're spending $150,000 a year on leads or more.
Jon Maddux: 16:57 And they're not paying attention to their existing databases. Is that what you're saying?
Tina King: 17:00 Right. So they're just taking the quick stuff that comes to them. Right?
Jon Maddux: 17:02 Sure.
Tina King: 17:03 And that is across the board for mortgage folks. That's across the board. It's a mentality of it, right? I believe in both and on that, I believe in having a database of, enriching relationships.
Jon Maddux: 17:15 Right.
Tina King: 17:15 So if it's mortgage, you're out there building relationships with agents. So how do we do that? So we need a backup to that, right? How do I even penetrate that market? Like do I go stand with caravan at the back wall and hope to get eye contact with somebody? Maybe that's part of it, right? You got to get out there.
Jon Maddux: 17:34 You have to do a lot of things.
Tina King: 17:36 So relationship building, something like you're doing, providing value to your industry, is going to bring people to you because they see that you have... you're bringing them value.
Tina King: 17:48 So items of value, what is that for a mortgage person to give to the industry.
Jon Maddux: 17:53 Right.
Tina King: 17:54 It might be just a rates video that they do or video is pretty big right now. It might be something like, but it has to be, I said the word earlier, consistent.
Jon Maddux: 18:02 Yeah, you can just do one video on Instagram and be like, I didn't really work for me. I didn't get any. I got a couple of likes and...
Tina King: 18:08 Exactly.
Jon Maddux: 18:08 Nobody called me and you're like, well nobody called you because you only did one.
Tina King: 18:12 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 18:12 Yeah.
Tina King: 18:12 So that's ground level. You have to build that.
Jon Maddux: 18:15 Right.
Tina King: 18:15 And start getting the value out there and getting some attention. So if you don't already have success under your belt, you're really going to have to double down on that. Okay. Success will help you grow relationships because people were heads are starting to turn, right.
Jon Maddux: 18:29 You want to work with people that are successful.
Tina King: 18:30 We're huge on Yelp.
Jon Maddux: 18:31 Yeah.
Tina King: 18:32 We get three to five transactions a month on Yelp. Some people are anti Yelp, but we have amazing reviews. So reviews are another aspect that you want to point your target at and really work on getting some reviews built up. I used to just basically throw my reviews away back in the day because there wasn't really a platform. I'm super old everybody.
Jon Maddux: 18:52 You don't look old.
Tina King: 18:54 But I am. So back then it was like it didn't really... I'll put it on my letterhead and send it out on my monthly mailing.
Jon Maddux: 19:02 Frame it, put it up.
Tina King: 19:03 I really didn't know what to do with it. But now there's all these platforms that are available that you can...
Jon Maddux: 19:09 LinkedIn, Yelp, Google Reviews.
Tina King: 19:12 Exactly. And there's a way to find clients and build relationships on Linkedin. Just looking for commonalities in LinkedIn. That's how we do it as realtors, or some do, not very many, but we do, you go on LinkedIn, you find commonality, whether it be a hobby or whether it be something to do with the business or you're into boating, whatever that might be.
Jon Maddux: 19:32 How do you get someone's attention on LinkedIn though, because I'll be honest with you, I have LinkedIn and a lot of "friends" on LinkedIn, but I get hit up on LinkedIn every single day, 10, 20 emails a day.
Jon Maddux: 19:47 And most of them I would a glance at, I don't even give them more than two seconds because there's so much content that they put in there, like they put links and they put hi... It looks like a copy paste message. Right?
Tina King: 20:01 Well there's your problem right there.
Jon Maddux: 20:02 So how would you...I mean I know how I would.
Tina King: 20:05 Not your problem.
Jon Maddux: 20:05 Yeah their problem.
Tina King: 20:05 Right. Their problem. Somebody else did it.
Jon Maddux: 20:08 I know how to reach someone on LinkedIn or at least I know how to improve my odds of reaching someone on LinkedIn. I would love to hear a coach's perspective on that.
Tina King: 20:18 Okay. A proven method is again, backing up to find something in your searches of commonality. Okay.
Jon Maddux: 20:26 You have to do a little work before you...
Tina King: 20:28 You have to do some work ahead of time.
Jon Maddux: 20:29 Copy, Paste, send. Right?
Tina King: 20:30 Actually, I've actually taught a class on this. So you have to do some work and then you design the message accordingly.
Jon Maddux: 20:37 So it's work, right?
Tina King: 20:37 It's consistency on there to.
Jon Maddux: 20:40 It's work and consistency. What I see is a lot of laziness. People just copy pasting and playing the numbers game, right? Somebody's going to respond...
Tina King: 20:51 Maybe.
Jon Maddux: 20:52 Maybe.
Tina King: 20:52 I don't.
Jon Maddux: 20:53 But they don't. The ones that you want to get don't respond.
Tina King: 20:57 Right.
Jon Maddux: 20:57 They just pass you over. Right. When actually there could be something there that could be beneficial and add value.
Tina King: 21:04 Right.
Jon Maddux: 21:05 If they could catch my attention, and I read it and made sense for me to engage. Right.
Tina King: 21:10 I'd be like, this is just an example cause I used to ride a Harley years ago.
Jon Maddux: 21:14 Cool.
Tina King: 21:14 This is just a quick example, right? So I put it out there. Find people who are in the industry. If I were looking for that, right?
Jon Maddux: 21:22 Yeah.
Tina King: 21:23 Other realtors, if I was in mortgage, and I would have a picture of my Harley and I would send that out in a personal message to them, I would connect and see if they will connect with me and say, let's go on a day ride sometime.
Jon Maddux: 21:33 Yes.
Tina King: 21:34 You know, I live in Encinitas or whatever. Right? So, if they don't respond, they don't respond. But it's still not that one hit. It's next time you go back with congratulations or happy birthday or some way of shaping a connection. And you have to not just one person, you have to do a good handful because there's going to be a percentage that they just don't respond no matter what you do.
Jon Maddux: 21:56 Your busy.
Tina King: 21:57 But if you get one or two or three that you never had before and now it results in a huge transaction or two or just building a great relationship and now they... it's not really about them. It's about who they know. Right.
Jon Maddux: 22:08 Yeah.
Tina King: 22:08 Who are they going to refer to you. Right.
Jon Maddux: 22:09 Who is in their circle.
Tina King: 22:11 I had a realtor come to me the other day, and we were looking at her to join the company. We have a small brokerage that we've started as well as our amazing team that we have. She came to us the other day, and she said, you know what, I have a database of people, this is the mentality thing for even mortgage folks. I have a database of people, but I don't think they have very much money and Dah, Dah, Dah, Dah. I go, you know what? It's who they know.
Jon Maddux: 22:34 Yeah.
Tina King: 22:35 Right.
Jon Maddux: 22:35 Right.
Tina King: 22:35 Brian Buffini I think tells a story or used to on stage about a janitor, that he befriended and built a relationship and then ended up referring a ton of people to him. Right.
Jon Maddux: 22:47 You never know. And you can't judge a book by its cover.
Tina King: 22:50 There's no judgment.
Jon Maddux: 22:50 Yeah.
Tina King: 22:51 There's no judgment. There's just connection and there's no boundaries to that. You just connect.
Jon Maddux: 22:56 You never know what's going to happen.
Tina King: 22:56 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 22:58 And you can't judge a book by its cover. We've had times when we've gone into brokers offices and, you might have a person sitting there in a small little desk, and they're not the boss, they're not the manager, they're just so, loan officer and its so easy to walk by them. Maybe they're wearing shorts and a hat and you just don't think that they're doing much business.
Tina King: 23:18 Or vans.
Jon Maddux: 23:18 Yeah. But then you go and talk to them and then they have like five loans on their desk, and they're the exact... so you got to... I think you're right. You can't just judge a book by its cover, and you've got to reach out with commonality and just... right. It's more of consistency.
Tina King: 23:39 Its a process. So it is a long game.
Jon Maddux: 23:41 Yeah.
Tina King: 23:41 Okay. However, it needs to be happening while you're hitting the now business.
Jon Maddux: 23:46 Right.
Tina King: 23:47 So to me it's a both and balance. If you're so focused on buying leads and trying to get your 3% or whatever your conversion rates are, not really sure, but you are going to get what comes at you, and a lot of times it's people you don't even want to work with, right?
Jon Maddux: 24:03 Had a couple of those.
Tina King: 24:05 So let's build a business is going to be fun, over time, and you're going to take and pick from those people, from the now business and go, I want to repeat those people five times.
Tina King: 24:16 So now you put them in your attention database, and you're going to stay in touch with them and there're items of value or videos that you send out to them or a newsletter, something that keeps in front of them that continues to bring value to those people long after the transactions' over.
Tina King: 24:32 The majority of realtors and probably I would say mortgage folks, next right? What was her name again? They don't mean to, they're busy. Next thing is happening. However, that's where systems come into play again. We've got to have some systems in place to help you with those things. And so it might take some investment of money, investment of time. Most type A people like myself don't want to deal with that, so hire somebody to do it.
Jon Maddux: 24:56 Yeah you can.
Tina King: 24:56 But do it.
Jon Maddux: 24:57 You can hire someone who's really good at paying attention to detail and going after and finding the commonalities that you have between people. That would be a great job for someone that could be an assistant and could look on LinkedIn for, oh you like Harley's, so go find me. All the real estate agents are all the mortgage people that also like Harley's and go on Facebook and then you give me a list and then you can go. It makes sense.
Tina King: 25:23 The next assignment for your Business Development Manager if you have one here. Absolutely.
Jon Maddux: 25:29 Yeah.
Tina King: 25:29 So there you go.
Jon Maddux: 25:29 It's really like... I think that it takes a little bit of brain power, a little bit of thinking, a little bit of planning, a little bit of energy and effort and...
Tina King: 25:37 It's not rocket science. It's actually pretty easy. However, it's hard to get to it, right?
Jon Maddux: 25:43 People are people You've got to find out what makes them tick.
Tina King: 25:48 And that's why I go back to the coaching.
Tina King: 25:50 Each individual's different, each level that they're at is different. And so we have to find out what that is and what we need to correct. Everybody has something broken.
Jon Maddux: 26:01 What do you do when you have... so some of our viewers probably have loan officers that worked for them.
Tina King: 26:06 Right.
Jon Maddux: 26:07 What do you do when you have loan officers that are just not productive?
Tina King: 26:10 Okay. Well in the beginning there needs to be an expectation set. So it might be a 90 day, or a 120 day ride.
Jon Maddux: 26:17 Right?
Tina King: 26:18 Right. So you're already set up for that and you onboard them properly, which most companies struggle with an onboarding process, that everyone that I've run, right. We're perfecting ours. So you've got to have a really good onboarding. You've got to wow them just as much as they need to wow you. They're actually your client as well.
Jon Maddux: 26:38 Right.
Tina King: 26:38 They're helping feed your family, too. So, you need to wow them with whatever it is your models about. Makes sure that they're following the steps that they need to do and following instruction. So they've got that ride for 90 days. So you have investment upfront.
Jon Maddux: 26:52 Yup.
Tina King: 26:52 Yup. Right. And a lot of companies don't want to do that kind of investment because they're like, well, what if they don't work out? Well, what if they do?
Jon Maddux: 27:01 Right. You got to put your best foot forward and at least if you're hiring them, you got to hope that they're going to do good. Right?
Tina King: 27:07 Right. And that goes back to the personality assessments as well. You might want to plug into like a DiSC format or something to...
Jon Maddux: 27:15 What if you are like six months or eight months in and you didn't do all those things and now you've got some unproductive loan officers.
Tina King: 27:21 They're unproductive. Okay. What I've always done with agents is, I literally put them on like a 60 day, like performance improvement, almost like a corporate, but I don't try to be...
Jon Maddux: 27:30 A PIP.
Tina King: 27:30 A PIP.
Jon Maddux: 27:31 Performance Improvement Plan.
Tina King: 27:32 That's right. I've never been on one myself, but I haven't put a few people on them. So like a PIP.
Jon Maddux: 27:38 How do you do that where its positive? I think a lot of people get a PIP and then they're like, they want to get rid of me.
Tina King: 27:46 I want to call it a positive...
Jon Maddux: 27:47 Improvement Plan.
Tina King: 27:48 Yes.
Jon Maddux: 27:48 Okay.
Tina King: 27:49 That's what I want to call it. And that's what I call it. And so it is a positive, and you create it. It's a coaching experience for 90 days. Right. So they have to go back to square one, and they have to go baby steps again, and you give them that recharge.
Tina King: 28:04 If they don't do it then, you got to release them to the marketplace because you are probably doing them a favor anyway. Right.
Jon Maddux: 28:10 That's true.
Tina King: 28:10 At that point, you know there's going to be investment. Let's hope you get it right out the gate, but it doesn't always happen.
Jon Maddux: 28:15 Yeah.
Tina King: 28:16 Right.
Jon Maddux: 28:16 So I watched this show called Billions and there's a person... Do you ever watch that show Billions?
Tina King: 28:21 No, I have not.
Jon Maddux: 28:21 So there's a person on there who... I forget her name, but she works for this hedge fund, and she's a coach, but she works for the company, and she's kind of like HR, but she's really a powerful coach, and it's so impactful what she does for the... it's a hedge funds, so they are all traders.
Tina King: 28:42 Right.
Jon Maddux: 28:43 Whatever she does, her coaching just completely changes their performance. I could see where that works. Does that resonate at all. Do you think companies should hire a coach that works at their offices?
Tina King: 28:56 What is that book?
Jon Maddux: 28:56 I don't know.
Tina King: 28:59 There's a book that's all about that.
Jon Maddux: 29:00 Yeah.
Tina King: 29:01 I can't think of it right now. One of my mentors says that, that book reminds her of me. I read... I can't think of... I'll think of it hopefully in a moment, but yes.
Jon Maddux: 29:11 Someone that works at your office...
Tina King: 29:13 In the company
Jon Maddux: 29:14 In the company, and they are like the go-to, like someone's bummed out that day, go see Julia or whatever.
Tina King: 29:19 That's the idea around the productivity coaching program at Keller Williams. It was just a hyper focus approach on, that's all I did. I didn't sell.
Jon Maddux: 29:26 You go see Julia she just gets you fired up, and then send you out.
Tina King: 29:31 Right. So we fire him up sometimes where a cheerleader, right.
Jon Maddux: 29:34 Yeah.
Tina King: 29:35 Sometimes we've delivered bad news. Sometimes where we... it's tough love. So depends on the person and the situation.
Jon Maddux: 29:43 Right.
Tina King: 29:43 So yes, I think that's key. You will have better retention, and you'll have higher productivity.
Jon Maddux: 29:49 Interesting.
Tina King: 29:50 That's how I took a company from negative million to eight and a half million in revenue in their first year. It is a tough love.
Jon Maddux: 29:55 Where you that person in the company?
Tina King: 29:58 I was the be all in all. I was the... and I hired a recruiter. So that took that off of me, and I had a broker. So I didn't have to worry about that. I had to grow and retain people. And take care of my staff. Nobody else in the past eight years had any success. It was losing money hand over fist. And I went in there, and I asked the CEO, what do you want to see from me?
Jon Maddux: 30:20 What did he say?
Tina King: 30:21 He said, "I want to see the same, up over 7 million." And I'm like, great. He didn't give me a timeline, and I did it in a year, did eight and a half. It was the worst position I ever had. But the best. Okay.
Jon Maddux: 30:35 You made a huge impact.
Tina King: 30:37 Well they tried to micromanage me. They we're based out of San Francisco and I was here in San Diego. They basically tried to micromanage me. That's another thing you need to be aware of. There are people that are self starters that know their stuff.
Tina King: 30:49 Now, I didn't know their model, it is very high tech based real estate in coming leads. I just came off of Keller Williams, it is a whole different world.
Jon Maddux: 30:57 Sure.
Tina King: 30:57 However, I took that torch and brought it in and instilled the culture. Culture is also important, and I think a coach can help with in your organization or if you have a coach, or you're the CEO of a company, you need to bring good culture to the company.
Jon Maddux: 31:11 Culture is huge.
Tina King: 31:12 So we can talk about that if you want to. I mean, we could probably talk for four hours.
Jon Maddux: 31:16 There's so many good things to talk about.
Tina King: 31:18 Totally, right. Just some simple ingredients though that I think are key.
Jon Maddux: 31:22 Yeah, that's good. That's really good. You've worked with a lot of successful realtors. What would you say, if you were a mortgage broker right now, and you know, rates are good. Non-QM is a new side of the business, it's what we're doing.
Jon Maddux: 31:43 You know the rates are gonna go back down. Sorry. You know the rates are going to go back up at some point. What would you do to go out and make new referral sources? Like how would you get it? Would you go after... because everyone goes after realtors, right? So there's probably some good ways to go after a realtor, and some bad ways to go after a realtor.Tell us about what you think would be the best way to approach.
Tina King: 32:03 It depends, if they have a success track record that's going to get the door open much quicker. If they flat out don't know these realtors, they're trying to touch a lot of mortgage officers out there, lead with rate. I don't know that's always the best, we signed up...
Jon Maddux: 32:21 Then you can lose tomorrow if the next person has a lower rate. So it's a little hard to...
Tina King: 32:27 And that's how some of the consumer shop, right?
Jon Maddux: 32:30 Yeah.
Tina King: 32:30 When we're working with them on the real estate side, we're going, oh no, we have no idea who this loan company is. There are somewhere online. Oh my gosh. There are a number. So we kept treating number one people like people, right?
Jon Maddux: 32:42 Right.
Tina King: 32:42 So take the whole number of question out of it.
Tina King: 32:44 So we've had a loan officer that we were using best rates ever. I mean even when the rates were higher, but horrendous customer service.
Jon Maddux: 32:55 Yeah.
Tina King: 32:56 Our name is on that.
Jon Maddux: 32:57 Yeah.
Tina King: 32:58 Right. So the customer is the buyer, mortgage person is taking care of the loan.
Jon Maddux: 33:04 Yeah.
Tina King: 33:05 They totally derail the whole thing. The mud gets slung at us. Up goes bad Yelp review, about us. So you got to build that trust first.
Jon Maddux: 33:16 You do.
Tina King: 33:17 Hopefully you have some success track record that'll get you in that door.
Jon Maddux: 33:21 Right.
Tina King: 33:21 So how do you do that? So again, let's back up to, you got to bring value, right? You got to bring value. Maybe you're sending a video for tips for realtors. Maybe you're some way to pierce that door to get in that door with that realtor. It's not going to be the rate sheet.
Jon Maddux: 33:36 Yeah.
Tina King: 33:37 Okay. They ought to make sure that you're going to take good care of their clients. Period. End of story.
Jon Maddux: 33:41 They have to trust you like you said. I think a lot of that comes from just relationship building.
Tina King: 33:45 It is, and it takes time. Again, all of this takes time, and most of us don't have the patience for it and you need to be consistent with it.
Jon Maddux: 33:54 It kind of goes back to doing what you said where it's like, it takes time. So you need to allow yourself to have time by shopping online, by having an assistant take care of the light bulbs or having the electrician do that. Or you know what I mean? Like you need to value your time so that... I think so many of us, someone told me one time, busy is a choice. We all are busy, right? We're all doing things. We all can, can make our lives busy and eat up our time by little things like that.
Jon Maddux: 34:27 We choose to do, the choice thing. If we just value our time and keep it sacred and let all these little busy things like grocery shopping and doing our bills and checking her Facebook, all these little things that we think are so important. If we move those over, and take the time that we need to invest into ourselves and into our business, I think we'll find a...
Tina King: 34:53 So let me give you a tip on how to accomplish that.
Jon Maddux: 34:54 Yeah.
Tina King: 34:56 Anybody can do this. What we do with you in coaching is, we want to create... and there's nothing perfect about a schedule, but let's create a perfect schedule. And you can literally just take a spreadsheet put Monday, Monday, Tuesday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Thursday, Friday, Friday, Saturday, Saturday, Sunday, Sunday.
Tina King: 35:11 Why am I doing two? Well, one is going to be, what do I feel my perfect, if I really carved everything out, got that assistant and leveraged my grocery shopping and all those things, what would my perfect day look like?
Tina King: 35:23 There better be at least three hours of prospecting and following up in there, right?
Jon Maddux: 35:27 There has to be.
Tina King: 35:28 Then there's gotta be some appointment time, and those important dollar productive things need to be in that block of time, and you color code them, right? And then the next day and you do it and you do it for the whole week, and then family time and family time at night, whatever that's going to be for you.
Tina King: 35:42 Then the next day you literally are journaling what you are actually doing because we're all creatures of habit. And what you're talking about is that busy work, those are all habits that you already have.
Jon Maddux: 35:51 Right? Really your subconscious doing it.
Tina King: 35:53 Right.
Jon Maddux: 35:54 Your not even aware that you're doing.
Tina King: 35:55 Do you go and get a juice every day.
Jon Maddux: 35:56 No, that was the first in months.
Tina King: 35:59 Back that out. Edit that out.
Tina King: 36:00 However, some people may go right to Starbucks or whatever. Right. So they could go there and not even realize they went there because that's what they do. Or brushing your teeth, right?
Jon Maddux: 36:08 Yeah.
Tina King: 36:09 So this busy stuff is the same thing. It's just how we've trained our mind. So this schedule, and you must look at it every day, it can't be on your iPad or your computer or your iPhone. It has to be in front of you. And you literally have to adhere to journaling that for at least two weeks.
Jon Maddux: 36:24 You can compare it?
Tina King: 36:26 You got to compare it. You can put it on the computer, but you want to print it every day, and you can have your color code. So you can see how far are you off just by just looking at color. So if you've got green for prospecting and follow up, but you're not seeing any green on that next day or the next year and the next day, and that's every day on your perfect schedule, you got a problem man, we got to figure this out, right?
Jon Maddux: 36:45 Yeah.
Tina King: 36:46 No wonder you don't have any money, right?
Jon Maddux: 36:47 Right.
Tina King: 36:48 So what is your activities that are going to bring your results, right?
Jon Maddux: 36:52 Right.
Tina King: 36:52 So over time, we don't want a business like this. And I know you know people that are on that roller coaster. We want to build an exponential growth business, right? So exponential growth and exponential is your results. So, and it's not a perfect line, just like an airplane flying across the country. It doesn't go perfectly straight across the country to Florida.
Tina King: 37:08 It makes course correction all along the way. What we don't want to happen is we don't want you to get off into flying off into some other country.
Jon Maddux: 37:17 Cuba or Mexico.
Tina King: 37:18 And get shot down, right? That's what your schedule is. It's designed to help keep you between some kind of lines and keep you more consistent.
Jon Maddux: 37:25 It kind of makes you aware what you're actually doing.
Tina King: 37:28 Makes you super aware. And because we're not, right?
Jon Maddux: 37:31 Right.
Tina King: 37:31 I'm guilty of it too. I keep falling back into my old habits sometimes. And guess what, if you're not getting your workouts in, this is a great way to get that started. If you can at least nail that, you can accomplish the rest of it.
Tina King: 37:43 So if you say, I'm going to take a walk with my dog every day at 7:00 AM and you haven't done it for like three years, and your dog is like 20 pounds overweight and so are you, try it, get out there. And you'll be surprised. You'll start to see those results.
Tina King: 37:57 Here's why people give up. They don't see the results.
Jon Maddux: 38:01 Yes, that's true.
Tina King: 38:02 Right? Subconsciously, they just go right back into their old habits. So having it visually in front of you, following the steps and having someone look at it, I don't care if it's your wife or your manager.
Jon Maddux: 38:13 That goes back to having a coach. Because, I think why people give up is because they don't have a coach.
Tina King: 38:19 True.
Jon Maddux: 38:19 Right. They give up because they don't see results. But if you had a coach...
Tina King: 38:23 Blame it on the coach.
Jon Maddux: 38:26 I think if you were like maybe a month in, you haven't seen results, but then the coach is like, look, it doesn't take a month. It takes two or three months.
Tina King: 38:34 Just that reminder.
Jon Maddux: 38:35 And you're like, you're right. You're right.
Tina King: 38:37 Exactly.
Jon Maddux: 38:37 Then you just keep going, then you will start seeing results. But I think that's a huge point. That's amazing that like you got to be patient, and you got to wait.
Tina King: 38:48 You've got to write it out because nobody really knows. You could tell me what you're doing, and I'll be like, okay, you might want to try this. That's not good enough. It has to be literally looked at, examined and followed.
Tina King: 39:00 That's just a tip that I think anybody can do.
Jon Maddux: 39:02 I think you'd be surprised if we went back and looked and saw. We wrote down what we thought we were going to do and then you go back, and you look and see what you actually did. Like it'd be a shocker.
Tina King: 39:12 Just do it for two weeks without really judging it. I think that any organization can do that right now without a coach and have a little mastermind group shaped. Like the brokers out there with their teams, I think they could do a little mastermind group around that and make it fun. And just make it a process.
Jon Maddux: 39:30 How do you make it fun?
Tina King: 39:31 I think it'd just be fun for everybody to collectively get together and share how bad they're messing up and then hold each other accountable. Maybe they have accountability buddy, or it's just the group. There's just different little things you can do to help tweak productivity. But one of it is teamwork, helping your fellow teammate do better.
Jon Maddux: 39:51 Right.
Tina King: 39:52 So that creates bonds. And they might even be looking at one schedule and say, oh my gosh, I didn't know you'd like to surf. Dude, I've been sitting next to you for two years. He's like, well, let's go surfing some time.
Jon Maddux: 40:03 Yeah. That's cool.
Tina King: 40:04 It's on my perfect schedule at 6:30 AM every day. Wow. It's on mine at seven. I can make an exception. Let's go. Right.
Jon Maddux: 40:10 I like that.
Tina King: 40:10 So now they're out there surfing and there masterminding about business.
Jon Maddux: 40:14 We call those board meetings.
Tina King: 40:16 Yeah, those are board meetings. I've never been on one of those boards. It was one of my items that I wanted to do and I moved here back in 2005 and I still haven't done it, so I need to get out there.
Jon Maddux: 40:24 Yeah. The weather's getting warmer.
Tina King: 40:27 The water is cold [inaudible 00:40:28]
Tina King: 40:28 I used to do triathlon out there. I used to see shadows.
Jon Maddux: 40:36 This happened here in San Diego recently.
Tina King: 40:37 Exactly.
Jon Maddux: 40:38 So scary. You never know.
Tina King: 40:40 Dress like a fish. You might become somebody's meal.
Jon Maddux: 40:45 Yes. You don't want that.
Jon Maddux: 40:47 What do you think is a good way for a mortgage broker to stand out from the crowd?
Tina King: 40:55 Success leaves clues, right? Getting some success, being with potentially... I'm not so much about brand, but brand might come into play in some instances. Having those reviews. Having some evidence, you have to have some evidence.
Jon Maddux: 41:13 Right.
Tina King: 41:14 And if you're new, get on the coattails of someone who has that.
Jon Maddux: 41:18 That's smart.
Tina King: 41:19 Its super smart.
Jon Maddux: 41:20 Yeah.
Tina King: 41:21 I've got to tell you the general public, after being in management and coaching for 10 years of my sales career out of 26 27 years, I came out the gate just over a year and a half ago and aligned myself with somebody I actually mentored back in 2005 and she was doing 50 transactions a year on her own just by herself and absolutely getting sick over the whole thing. I came along and now we're going to be closing well over a hundred this year. I've only been with her since, actually May of last year.
Tina King: 41:48 So that's what I'm saying about... I didn't jump on her coattails cause I needed leads. Mine was very different, because I was trying to decompress from the big corporate world, but I still have the passion to grow people, and so she helps me to feed me with that.
Tina King: 42:05 So find what works for you and what you're looking for and go out and get it. Now we have agents come to us wanting leads and I call it like, crap.
Jon Maddux: 42:13 Give me some drugs.
Tina King: 42:15 Running [inaudible 00:42:16] it was much like that. So it was all leads, right? And so anyway, that's a whole nother story. You attract that though. So you're leading with, hey I've got leads. Don't do that. Lead with what your success is. Lead with what that is, and that'll attract the right people into your life. That includes realtors to work with you. So if you're not successful yet, get with somebody who is.
Jon Maddux: 42:40 That's smart.
Tina King: 42:40 Right? Makes sure that you're getting that out there. The video... I keep going back to this. You got to keep just putting them...
Jon Maddux: 42:46 You gotta put it out there.
Tina King: 42:48 Our industry is saturated.
Jon Maddux: 42:51 Yeah.
Tina King: 42:52 Everybody's got a real estate license, everybody's doing mortgages.
Jon Maddux: 42:55 Aunt Jackie's got a real estate license, so she's just going to handle it for us. Whatever you're like.
Tina King: 43:01 Yeah. And so same for mortgage, right? So, I really think that the way to stand out is get a couple successes and let everybody know about it. It's just like when we're farming in a neighborhood, I do kind of like an inside out farming method where I'm not just beating them with a bunch of propaganda.
Tina King: 43:18 I have a success and then I tout that success as much as possible.
Jon Maddux: 43:23 Sure.
Tina King: 43:24 I make phone calls in the neighborhood. I let them know we sold that house for more than anybody has since 1969, sold in two days. They don't know that other houses are selling in two days.
Jon Maddux: 43:34 Right.
Tina King: 43:35 I am going out there..
Jon Maddux: 43:35 But they are not hearing it. You got to hear it from somebody.
Tina King: 43:37 Nobody is telling the story. Tell your story.
Jon Maddux: 43:41 Right.
Tina King: 43:42 It takes time though. Have that patience. You might have to or want to buy some leads as well too. You should always have that infill stuff going on, but don't put all your eggs in any one basket. You have to build different pillars in your business.
Jon Maddux: 43:54 That's good. I love it. What I usually ask my viewers... the last question is what's your favorite failure? And the reason I asked that is that we all have to have failures to be successful. It's like, the Thomas Edison, how many times did he fail making the light bulb? It wasn't, failure to him. It was that many times that he found out a way not to make a light bulb.
Jon Maddux: 44:17 What would be something that you think is like your favorite failure or something that you learned a cool lesson from?
Tina King: 44:23 There are so many, and I know you've probably heard that before because I believe anybody who's successful has failed several times.
Jon Maddux: 44:31 You have to have.
Tina King: 44:33 I am not sure if I can call it a failure, but when I went into the seat at Zip Realty, it was an unknown model to me is real estate. But it was an unknown model, they were beating me up. You'd go to the board meetings and it was more about all the things you didn't do versus the great things that you did do. So it was like constant, like stomach ache.
Jon Maddux: 44:52 You don't want to go there.
Tina King: 44:53 It was a horrible culture. I had people in my face every day screaming at me, realtors angry over whatever. It took me awhile, but I also turned that around and that was the greatest success and it was probably the best thing I ever on my resume to be honest over all the things I've ever done.
Jon Maddux: 45:10 Its turning things around.
Tina King: 45:12 I left there on a high note, they didn't excuse me or anything like that. I literally said, listen, I got to get back to my mojo because this model's not really speaks to me even though I did a lot of great things here. Thank you so much. Got to go. They didn't want me to leave of course.
Tina King: 45:27 It was that, and then a personal one, I moved here. I was making well over $250,000 a year in Arizona, which is, goes a lot further than $250,000 a year. I moved here and literally went bankrupt in five months.
Jon Maddux: 45:46 Wow.
Tina King: 45:47 But I met my life love, and I have a beautiful daughter, which I would have never even experienced that. I've had the opportunity to meet so many amazing people, but I got to tell you, it was living H-E-double toothpicks in the beginning. And I'm like, why did I do that? I lost everything.
Jon Maddux: 46:05 Wow.
Tina King: 46:07 I came over here without a plan. I just, one day after 41 years in Arizona said, I'm leaving. And I left. I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell anybody.
Jon Maddux: 46:16 It would have felt like a failure at the time, I imagine.
Tina King: 46:19 It was a huge failure.
Jon Maddux: 46:20 Then you turned it around.
Tina King: 46:21 I was starving. I was working for Brian Buffini, nothing against him, but the salary was very low and I was like, I'm following my passion. What am I not doing right.
Jon Maddux: 46:32 Right.
Tina King: 46:33 So, of course he always welcomed me back for everyone to come back. But I had to go after the first year because I wasn't financially making it. I was dying. And so, I went and I created that productivity coaching program.
Tina King: 46:45 So when times are tough and Gary Keller says this, the seeds of failure are planted in the times of success and then, the seeds of success are planted in the times of failure. Did I say that right? I now need lunch. Did I say it right?
Jon Maddux: 47:03 No, I mean that goes a long way. The last a guest we had was, Hard Times Create Strong Men.
Tina King: 47:11 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 47:12 Or strong people.
Tina King: 47:13 Honor the struggle.
Jon Maddux: 47:14 Yup.
Tina King: 47:16 Also in structure there is freedom. So, get your systems in place you guys and make sure you're getting the assistance you need. You can't do it all. Your type A, you think you can. you can't do it all.
Jon Maddux: 47:27 Can't do it all, and you're definitely not using leverage or scaling if you're just doing it all yourself.
Tina King: 47:33 You won't scale. You'll burnout. I burned out once in my real estate career. I basically just gave up. I'm like, I was selling so much real estate and I had a team and it was very... that was another failure, I would say. It was not a good thing to walk into my team and puke negativity all over them.
Jon Maddux: 47:49 No. It's never.
Tina King: 47:50 I'll never forget that. And so, I recreated myself all... we've all recruited. If you're not recreating yourself, you're dying. Like you gotta constantly evolve. So, that's what I would say. That's my strongest advice, get that in order. Get that perfect...
Jon Maddux: 48:04 Get an assistance, get a coach.
Tina King: 48:05 Yeah.
Jon Maddux: 48:05 I'm going to do it.
Tina King: 48:06 The right coach.
Jon Maddux: 48:07 The right coach.
Tina King: 48:08 You might have to not kiss a few toes to get that coach, but do your research.
Jon Maddux: 48:13 Well, thankfully, like you said, Yelp and there's reviews out there. You can ask people, you could probably post something and say, "Hey, I need a coach, does anyone have any good referrals?" And then go with a referral, not just the person that pops up with the ad.
Tina King: 48:25 Go with the referral. Check it out and build a relationship with all those people.
Jon Maddux: 48:28 Right
Tina King: 48:29 Stay in touch.
Jon Maddux: 48:30 That's right.
Tina King: 48:30 Okay.
Jon Maddux: 48:31 That's very good.
Tina King: 48:31 Thanks guys.
Jon Maddux: 48:32 Thank you for coming on.
Tina King: 48:33 All right. Thank you for having me.
Jon Maddux: 48:33 Thanks for watching. Please like, share and subscribe. See you on the next one.
Jon Maddux: 48:37 Thank you for listening to our podcast. If you guys are looking for more content like this, we have a fund loads YouTube Channel, where we give away more tips, secrets and origination ideas. You can also email us at email@example.com.
Jon Maddux: 48:51 If you've made it this far, I think it's safe to say you like our content, so please subscribe, share, and send us your scenarios. Let's fund loans together.
On this episode, Jon Maddux speaks with award-winning Entrepreneur, Author, and Real Estate Investor—Stefan Aarnio. The two speak about how Stefan used $1,200 to build a multimillion-dollar portfolio, the #1 rule in negotiations, best practices for su
"Respect The Grind" With Stefan Aarnio, As Featured On FundLoans' Vlog "The Million Dollar Mortgage Experience.
Here's The Transcription
Jon Tilghman: 00:00 This episode of the Million Dollar Mortgage Experience is brought to you by our new Insignia product line, jumbo mortgages for A-paper borrowers. Contact us today at firstname.lastname@example.org for product details.
Jon Tilghman: 00:14 On this episode, Jon Maddux speaks with award winning entrepreneur, author, and real estate investor Stefan Aarnio. The two speak about how Stefan used only $1,200 to build a multimillion dollar portfolio, the number one rule in negotiations, best practices for successful mortgage brokers, and most importantly, why you need to respect the grind.
Jon Tilghman: 00:40 Now before we get to this episode, I want to let you know that FundLoans is giving away several copies of Stefan's new book Hard Times Create Strong Men. To enter this giveaway, head over to this episode's video on our FundLoans YouTube channel and leave a comment. At the end of June, our marketing team will pick a few lucky winners. Now onto the show.
Intro: 01:01 Welcome to the Million Dollar Mortgage Experience podcast. Listen in as CEO Jon Maddux of FundLoans, reveals tips, secrets, and origination ideas to fill your pipeline with million dollar opportunity.
Jon: 01:18 Welcome to the Million Dollar Mortgage Experience podcast. I'm here with Stefan. How's it going Stefan?
Stefan: 01:24 Very good. How are you?
Jon: 01:25 Doing great. Thanks for joining us today. So, talk to us about your respect the grind. I love that.
Stefan: 01:35 Thanks dude. Yeah, well respect the grind is a saying I've been saying ... I'm a real estate coach and investor and I had a student some years ago and he was saying, "Oh Stefan, this isn't working. I'm making my calls and my offers and I'm just not getting anywhere and I don't think this whole thing works." I said, "Jason, you just got to respect the grind. It's going to take you ten years and ten thousand hours to be a master, and why do you think that you can cut the line and get ahead of everyone who's been working at this for so long?" So it's a saying to respect the process and respect that journey towards mastery. That's what it's really about.
Jon: 02:11 That's great man. Yeah, it's true, and so many people think that things can just fall into their lap. And then just come so easily, when the truth is, it's the overnight success 10 years in the making, kind of thing, right? I mean, it takes a lot of effort, a lot of work to get to success. And then kind of like, I think Gary Vee says, "If you want to be in the 1%, you got to be willing to do 99% more than the rest of the groups." So I agree, the grind is very essential. And you talk about, I think in your book or on your podcast and your sites, that you became a multimillionaire and you started with $1,200. Tell us about how you became a multimillionaire. Was it mostly real estate related? Really what drove that?
Stefan: 03:01 Yeah. My first million dollars was real estate joint ventures. So I worked for a private equity company. I learned to raise money. And after leaving that company, I went on to the real estate game and I did 12 joint ventures my first year with a coach. So I did one deal in my first year in real estate. Second year I did one deal with development. Third year I did 12 deals, investor deals with a coach, and then the next year I did 24, 30. At one point we're up to 50. And my, I guess notoriety and brand from doing that, won me Rich Dad International Hall of Fame.
Jon: 03:37 Oh cool.
Stefan: 03:38 Which is a pretty big award. Rich Dad is the biggest personal finance brand in the world, over 40 million people own that book, so big recognition. And yeah, first million dollars was real estate joint ventures, which was buying, fixing, selling properties. I had some private partners who were multimillionaires and I would get some fees up front for doing the deal and we'd also split the profits or whatever kind of iteration that was. And that was how I built the base of what I'm doing now.
Jon: 04:08 That's great. So do you do more of the buy and hold strategies, is that your strategy, or do you do both flipping and holding?
Stefan: 04:16 So I've got a buy and hold portfolio, several million dollars there. And then I had a company that was doing a big flipping pipeline. I'm just reorganizing that. I think we're going to come out with a company that's going to do a hundred deals a year. I'm building that with some of my students right now. And then, I'm doing wholesales every now and then, contracts come in, you maybe don't want to do the deal yourself, but you know who does, so you assign and sell the contract to somebody else and make three, five, 10, 20. I have a student who just made $25,000 a couple of days ago on a wholesale in Ottawa, Canada. And then I have another student actually in Ottawa as well. He was doing a $20,000 wholesale. So, that's something anybody can do from any city at any time, where you get a contract or a deal and you sell it, assign it to somebody else, and that's a great way to make money in real estate too.
Jon: 05:08 Interesting. So yeah, it's like you're the one that finds the deal and you're able to pass that on or sell that or monetize that ability. So it sounds like you're teaching secrets on ways for people to do that. Yeah?
Stefan: 05:23 Yeah. So my company's called Black Card University and Black Card is a five year program where anybody can join, and if they join they can qualify. I mean we don't just really let anybody in. And over five years you become a self made millionaire in real estate, through doing flips, raising capital, learning to sell, learning to negotiate. We're actually doing our negotiation classes this weekend. And I'm a firm believer that anybody can be a millionaire in five years, if they put in the work and if they actually do the things they're supposed to do. Anybody can do it. Real estate's non-discriminatory, money is non-discriminatory. The real question is just are you going to do your push ups and your sit ups? And the things required to win.
Jon: 06:07 Yeah, absolutely. I don't know who said it, maybe it was you, but it was like you can read a book about pushups, but that's not going to help you, just got to get on your hands and knees and just go for it and do it and get your hands dirty. So that's absolutely something that we preach here. We just did a recent podcast on how I became a millionaire at 30 and it was in five years. And really, really kind of reminiscent of what you're saying here and there's any way that ...
Jon: 06:35 So one of the things that we do obviously, is we're mortgage wholesale lender, and what we'd like to teach our mortgage brokers is unique ways on how they can find referrals, how they can find jumbo loans, what they have to do to go out and grow their business and grow their sphere of influence and their network. What kind of helped you as you were starting out to get a sphere of influence and have a good network that you could get referrals from. Was there anything specific or it's just knocking on doors, just putting in the work? Was there anything that was extra kind of helpful and beneficial in that regard?
Stefan: 07:17 So something I have my students do when I'm coaching them in real estate investing, and I think this applies to any business is if I was in the mortgage business, I'd been doing 50 calls a day, every day to just people I knew. And I think you've got to get really good at selling, get really good on the phone, because deals in any business come from networking, marketing or negotiating. And so I teach my students in real estate investing, 50 calls a week to people in real estate plus 10 offers in the market. If I was a mortgage broker, I'd do a minimum 50 calls a day. So that's my mentality around it. My sales guys in my office do up to a hundred calls a day, sometimes more.
Jon: 07:57 Yep.
Stefan: 07:57 And a absolute minimum of 50, you got to be dialing the phone like crazy. Now, I think the best way to get businesses to build a brand. And so, I built a brand through coaching, or not through coaching, but blogging. I was blogging everything I was doing. So I was documenting. This is in 2011, 2012, 2013, I would start blogging. And every day I put out a blog. I blogged for 120 days, an 800 to a thousand word article on whatever I was doing or whatever I was reading. And people really liked the blog. They were like man, this is a good blog. And after about 120 days I had speaking engagements, I had people asking me to come to their clubs and talk. I had all sorts of opportunity falling in my lap because I was putting out a lot of value in the marketplace. So we're putting out value, value was coming back in. And then I ended up making that into a book called Money People Deal, which has now sold over 20,000 copies of that book, which is crazy.
Jon: 08:54 That's awesome.
Stefan: 08:55 Within a year I raised $5 million from my own deals and really kicked off my career by blogging, training, and now I have a pretty nice education company that has grown out of those same blogs man. Those blogs turned into a book and we're printing and selling that book every day. So really I think the best way is to get the cat to come to you. So get what the cat wants. Maybe it's some catnip, maybe it's some cat food. The cats in the investor market, they want information. The cats in the mortgage market who want homes, they want information. So become a dealer of information, become a person who builds value in his information, educate the market, and then you're going to have the most leads of anybody.
Jon: 09:41 That's awesome. Definitely good advice there, man. So talk to us about negotiations. I know you have something that's called the 10 commandments of negotiations. What is one commandment that you always see that's unsuccessful? What's an unsuccessful way to negotiate? We'll start with that and then we can kind of talk about what's actually worked.
Stefan: 10:03 Well, I think a lot of times it comes down to the ego getting out of control. The first commandment of negotiations is get what you want and get out. So if you go into a negotiation knowing what you want and you're very specific about it, you say "This is what I want." It's really simple to be a negotiator when you try to help them and you tell the truth. And so, those are the two things, try to help and tell the truth. The first commandment of negotiations, get what you want to get out. When you get that thing, time to get out, time to just say, "Hey, okay good." Deal, shake on it and move on. What people do all the time is they end up, what's the word? They end up going too far. They end up going for things...
Jon: 10:46 Talk their way out of it and they oversell and they continue to, yeah, no, I know some people like that. Yeah, it's definitely...
Stefan: 10:54 Yeah. A lot of deals, exactly, they keep talking or something happens past the point where the deal's made and you've got to get what you want and get out. I was originally going to call the book that, Get What You Want and Get Out. It's called The 10 Commandments of Negotiation, but at the end of the day, I think that's the base of negotiating if you just do that. Get what you want and get out, life is good.
Jon: 11:18 That's good. Yeah. Don't oversell. Just once you get the yes, move on. Move to the next thing. So that's good advice too. So tell me a little bit about your daily hustle. What does a normal day look like for you? When do you get up, what do you do? What's important to really maximize the daily hustle?
Stefan: 11:42 Well, my daily hustle has changed a lot over the years. When I was in real estate, I'd get up at 5:00 AM and I'd do the whole 5:00 AM routine. When I started traveling and speaking, that really smashed my daily hustle because you get on a plane at 4:00 AM or you get up at 4:00 AM for a plane. And so it depends man. I do my life in theme days and so on Thursday I'll do my podcast and my content. Monday's my coaching day, I coach my students on Monday. Tuesday is usually open, Wednesday's open and then Friday I try to keep that open.
Stefan: 12:19 So I've got different theme days and I put flags on different days and say this day we're only doing this and this day we're only doing that. And that's a more of an entrepreneurial thing. I think that maybe being a mortgage salesman, if you're being a mortgage salesman everyday can kind of be the same. When you start running a multi seven or eight figure enterprise, I think it's more, theme days become a bigger thing. Because switching between departments is really difficult, to switch from management to sales, to marketing, to branding to fulfillment. Those switches are very hard on this psyche and that's why I do theme days.
Jon: 12:58 That's good. Very cool. But if you can remember back to the days when you were really trying to get, when you were more of an agent. What would you say really made the difference in the hustle? Was it was the 50 calls, was there anything else that you can share with our audience about how your hustle?
Stefan: 13:18 Totally dude. The biggest thing is get a coach.
Jon: 13:20 Really?
Stefan: 13:20 Just get a mother fucking coach.
Jon: 13:22 So if you don't have a coach, you say go get a coach. That's one of the main things.
Stefan: 13:26 Go get the coach you can't afford, hire the exact best guy. Hire the champion. Go find the guy at whatever it is you do, who is the undisputed champion and pay him whatever it costs to get you to his level.
Jon: 13:40 That's awesome.
Stefan: 13:42 That's the easiest way. Now here's the thing, I charge investors, to work with me direct is usually between 63 and $75,000 for the year. But guess what? If I can make you 300 or $400,000, it's worth it right?
Jon: 13:58 Yeah. Yeah. That's like free.
Stefan: 14:00 And I used to be cheap about it when I was younger. I'd be like, "Oh, I don't want to spend the money." Well I just paid a guy a hundred grand to build out a program for us to make me $1.6 million. So you've got to think like a business owner, think in annual terms. Don't think in monthly and just say, "Hey man, who's the best? Who's the best at this thing I'm trying to do." If you're a mortgage broker, find the best mortgage broker in the world and you can either go work for him for free and be his bitch for a year or two. Or if you don't want to do that, call him up and say, "Hey man, I want to learn your game exact how you do it. What's that going to take?" And he might say, "I don't know, give me 10 grand." Or he might say, "I'll do it for free." Probably won't.
Jon: 14:41 We might just tell you to fuck off.
Stefan: 14:44 Well, not if you're paying.
Jon: 14:45 Yeah, that's true.
Stefan: 14:48 And that's the reality. People who are really good at stuff, their time is valuable. They don't want to hang out with you. They want to go home to their kids and play with their daughter and play their dog and go for a nice life. They don't want to deal with you and your shit.
Jon: 15:00 Unless you pay them.
Stefan: 15:02 If you call them up... Well then it makes sense for the sacrifice their very valuable time.
Jon: 15:07 Right.
Stefan: 15:08 And so what I'm saying to you in any industry is find the guy who's done it and pay him whatever it costs to do it like him. And once you make that investment once, you get that for the rest of your life. So I think you can really win at anything like that.
Jon: 15:27 And that just comes back to investing in yourself really. I mean it's like, you as a professional, if you decide that you want to be the best or you want to make more money in your industry, you've got to do what 99% of the people won't do and you got to go out and do it. I love that idea, to go out and find a great coach and get that coach. I mean if you don't do that, you're going to stay stagnant and be exactly where you were yesterday and the year before. You're never going to change, you're never going to improve. So invest in yourself. That's what I'm hearing hearing you say. Is that right?
Stefan: 16:02 Absolutely. Absolutely. You've got to invest in yourself.
Jon: 16:07 And willing to. You've got to take a risk. Right? And that's somewhat of a risk.
Stefan: 16:09 Well, dude. Here's an example, Russell Brunson, he's a nine figure entrepreneur. He spent 750 grand on himself. Some people go, "Oh my God, 750 grand," but if you're making $100 million gross, 750 grand, almost a million dollars, who gives a shit? Who cares? And I think people are sort of thinking in annual terms and go, "Okay, so if I spend let's say 50 grand on a coach, but I make 250 who cares?".
Jon: 16:37 Yeah.
Stefan: 16:37 Instead they go, "Oh my God, it's 50 grand. I can't do that right now." Well, you never will.
Jon: 16:40 Right.
Stefan: 16:41 And you never will have the money. You'll never be there. But it's always investing in the thing. Look at Elon Musk. Elon Musk is trying to go to fricking Mars. Well, he doesn't have the money for that. He doesn't know how to do that, but he's fucking doing it. Richard Branson started Virgin Air. Well, he just chartered a plane, the guy didn't have $100 million sitting around. He just started making that happen.
Jon: 17:04 Right.
Stefan: 17:04 And that's an entrepreneurial thing. You're never going to have the money. You're never going to have the resources. You're always outgunned, so you might as well just say fuck it and just start doing it.
Jon: 17:16 Right. I love it. I love that Richard Branson story too. I read his book, that guy's awesome. He's an animal, but he's smart.
Stefan: 17:23 I mean if you go back to Richard Branson, he went to the bank and he wanted like 300 grand or 900 grand to put TVs on his planes. And they said no, they rejected him for the loan. So he went back to Boeing or something. He said, "Hey, how much to build a new fleet of planes with TVs installed." Well, they threw it in for free. So he went to the bank and he said, "Hey, I want to replace my whole fleet." And they said, "Okay." And they gave him the loan.
Stefan: 17:48 It's just this outside the box thinking. They won't give you 300 grand or whatever for my TV, but let's just replace the whole fleet.
Jon: 17:53 Yeah. And not just taking no for an answer and if you hit a wall, there's a window, there's a door somewhere else. There's another way to get around it. You've got to be able to not just go pout in your room if you get a no. You've got to be able to be thicker skinned than that and just be creative and have a little bit of an optimistic mind so that you know that there's a way, right. If someone else is out there doing it, if someone else out there is selling 50 houses in a month or doing 50 loans in a month. Then It can be done. And you just have to have that mindset, that if someone else can do it, why can't you do it if you put in the work, right. You put in the time.
Stefan: 18:32 Exactly. That's what it's all about. It's all about finding that way and sometimes the way doesn't exist. Again, coming back to Elon Musk, he's going to Mars.
Jon: 18:44 Yeah.
Stefan: 18:44 Nobody's been to Mars.
Jon: 18:45 There's no roadmap.
Stefan: 18:46 Nobody's done it. The government hasn't done it. There's no recipe. I'm doing some things right now in my company that there's no recipe for. It's never been done before. And it's scary because there's this whole unknown to the whole thing. Nobody's ever done it, and it might be a total piece of crap or it could be the thing that changes the world and that's the essence of entrepreneurship. I know that people in this call are mortgage brokers and not necessarily entrepreneurs, but I think the goal with being a real estate agent or a mortgage broker or house flipper is to become an entrepreneur and get out of that and not stay there forever.
Jon: 19:23 Yeah. I think most mortgage brokers, they are in essence, entrepreneurs because they have to run their own business. They have to...
Stefan: 19:32 No, but they're not. No, no, no, no. They're not.
Jon: 19:33 They're self employed in some sense.
Stefan: 19:36 No, they're brokers. Now let me define entrepreneur. An entrepreneur has an actual product. Okay. Mortgage broker is brokering products. So he's a salesman.
Jon: 19:44 Right.
Stefan: 19:44 He's a salesman of a product. If he had, now if a mortgage broker said, "Okay, we're going to create our own fund and we're going to raise capital from investors, I'm going to create a big marketing system" and all sort of stuff. Maybe he can call himself an entrepreneur. But it's like a realtor, a guy who sells homes is not an entrepreneur. He can say he's like an entrepreneur. He might think like one. But a guy who creates something or makes a product or, that's a real entrepreneur versus just a salesman.
Jon: 20:14 Yep. Good point. And there's a difference. There's a true line between a self employed person and an entrepreneur. You can be self-employed and not be an entrepreneur all day long. To be an entrepreneur, you're right, you have to create something. You have to make something and yeah, it's more risk for sure. And that's kind of what I think my point was that a lot of people are self employed and responsible for their own business. Yeah. They go out, they pick a niche maybe of the business that they want to focus in. But most mortgage brokers, they do take kind of whatever comes their way and they market and they blast market and there's not as much of the niche, kind of...
Stefan: 21:01 Well, there's no production department in that business. There's no production. It's sales and marketing only. Sales, marketing, sales, marketing, sales, marketing. You never have to go to the factory and fix the widgets.
Jon: 21:15 Right.
Stefan: 21:15 It's like, "Oh shit, the widget machine's broken." That never happens to a mortgage broker. He's got 50 lenders or whatever.
Jon: 21:21 Right.
Stefan: 21:22 He calls them up. He says, "Hey man, do you want this deal? Yeah, you do." Okay. Paper it up, done. Next deal comes in. It's transactional. And I think that what was my statement was you got to transform and transformationally change into something more. I have an actual education company that I grew from the ground up and that was, that's a brutal process, man. It cost me $1 million to build this thing I've got right now.
Jon: 21:49 I believe it.
Stefan: 21:49 And I'm looking at it, I'm thinking like, "Oh my God." And then I'm investing another 300 grand into it right now just into infrastructure. I'm like, "Oh my God." So anyways, a broker of something would never invest like that in themselves. They would just say, "Well, I'm a broker. I'm just going to keep hustling and I'll work Saturday." But the difference between an entrepreneur, they're building something usually.
Jon: 22:09 Right.
Stefan: 22:09 Whereas a broker is just selling shit. And it could be selling candles out of the back of your trunk or it could be selling mortgages or it could be someone homes or whatever.
Jon: 22:19 Yeah.
Stefan: 22:19 But there's a huge difference there between those two animals.
Jon: 22:23 I love how you respect the word entrepreneur. I love that. It's something that we take for granted. So many people want to be entrepreneurs and they want to their name as founder, entrepreneur and it is, it's different than just being self employed and it's different than just being a salesperson or a marketing person. There's a whole world of things that are different about it. And yes, a mortgage broker could become an entrepreneur in their business and create something and do something. I challenge mortgage brokers to do that. I mean, I think that's, there's something to that you're pointing out that I think resonates with me is, yeah, I mean you need to separate yourself from just the run of the mill mortgage brokers out there.
Jon: 23:10 There's so many mortgage brokers that just sort of live their life on autopilot and just do whatever the market's doing. They ride the wave of the market versus saying, "No, I'm going to pick this niche or I'm going to pick this part of the market and just focus in crush it and not be someone that's blown by the wind in the market." I mean, because the truth is you can make a lot. I think the majority of the mortgage broker community make a lot of money when the rates are low and then they suffer. It's like feast or famine. They suffer when the rates are high.
Jon: 23:41 But I've always been one of those that just goes out and finds where different parts of the market where you can make money all the time, whether or not the rates are high or low and whatnot. So I do challenge our listeners to definitely look into that type of business. Become an entrepreneur if it's in you to do it. I mean, do you think anyone can be an entrepreneur? Or do you think it's something that has DNA attached to it? Just curious.
Stefan: 24:12 I think theoretically anyone could, but I don't think anyone will.
Jon: 24:16 Right.
Stefan: 24:17 It's like saying like men and women are equal. Well, in theory you could say that they are, but in reality it's not even close. And so the theory is anyone can be an entrepreneur, yes in theory anyone can. I think a lot of entrepreneurs like real ones are driven by pain. They they went through, maybe they were an immigrant or they had nothing like myself. I had nothing, I was desperate and I became an entrepreneur. Just started running as fast as I could. So I don't think people choose entrepreneurship. Usually entrepreneurs, they have a lot of pain, they've got dead parents, incompetent parents. They're addicted to risk, they have all sorts of, mental entrepreneur diseases are bipolar, ADD, ADHD, there's all sorts of depression, anxiety. There's all these things that go with being an entrepreneur.
Stefan: 25:09 I think entrepreneur is kind of like the new rock star. It's a cool thing. Guys like Gary V or Grant Cardon or Kyle Lopez make it super cool to be an entrepreneur. But I think it's the hardest thing. I think that's the hardest thing. I could've just stayed as a house flipper guy and had a super good life. I could've stayed as a joint venture guy who had a rental portfolio, had a super good life. When I went into the full blown entrepreneurship and building what I'm building right now, I'm like, "Oh my God, this is so much harder than it looks. It's so much more scary. It costs so much more money and I'm built for it." For me, it's the only game I play. But a lot of people see that they want it and it's a fantasy.
Stefan: 25:54 And if you're a fantasy person, I think you're better off to have a job. Because this is something that will take everything you have and more and more and more and more. And I'll go back to Elon Musk. I mean, the guy put 100 million into his companies or whatever it was, and it's taking more and more and more and more. And it will absolutely consume your life. Maybe consume you 99% chance of failure over 10 years. And a lot of entrepreneurs have children. They don't recommend that their children become entrepreneurs because it is mother fucking heart dude. And I'm riding the lion. And I hope others ride the lion. I train people in entrepreneurship, but I wouldn't just say to anybody, "Oh go do this." Because it's like going to war. You don't just tell your children to go to war. War is hard.
Jon: 26:39 Yeah. So true.
Stefan: 26:41 I don't think that it's something that is meant everybody at all.
Jon: 26:45 Man, that's good stuff. So I think one of your posts or maybe it's on your book, I think I saw it. Where how tough times create strong men and I'm sure I'm butchering that but the whole... Hard Times Create...
Stefan: 27:06 Hard Times Create Strong Men.
Jon: 27:09 Yes. I love it. It is absolutely true. One thing that my son, and he was at, I think it was at 12 years old when he said this or maybe 11 he said, because we were watching like gladiator or something like that. He said, "Dad, why is it that the sons of kings are always weak?" And I was just like "bingo man." He nailed it on the head. And I was like, "Because they got the kush life and then life's too easy." Right. They got servants, they got maids, they got things just handed to them. And I was like, "That's a very, very good point." And what you just said about entrepreneurs, they had pain, they had a hard time, they had something that drives them. Right. That's absolutely true.
Jon: 27:52 And I mean so what do you recommend if someone does have, how can you change a son of a king into a warrior? I mean, what do they have to do they have to go through hard times? I mean, or is there a way that they could get in their mind to say, "You know what, I'm going to fucking just, I'm going to figure this out." Because I think you're right, it naturally creates strong men if it's a hard time. But is there a way where you could tweak that or game the system and become strong, even if you've had a good life?
Stefan: 28:30 Well, it's hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men and weak men create hard times. That's the cycle of history. And it's about an eight year cycle. Each line of that poem is 20 years. And can anybody, or how do we make the prince strong? And the answer is I'm a high performance coach. I make people into millionaires over five years and people hire me to kick their ass so I kicked their ass. And it's one of those that I get two types of clients. I get the self-made starting out with nothing guy, hero's journey. I'm going to just conquer the world. Starting out with nothing kind of guy. And it's like the story of Oedipus. Every man has to kill his father and marry his mother. And so that's a big struggle. If you have a really good dad, like Donald Trump for example, his father was $100 million man. Well he had to step out of his father's shadow and become a billionaire.
Jon: 29:30 Right.
Stefan: 29:30 And Donald Trump had, I think four or five other siblings who are not billionaires. So those other men where as brothers didn't step out of the shadow of dad.
Jon: 29:39 Right.
Stefan: 29:41 And so that's a man's struggle against himself, is to kill his father and marry his mother, find a woman like his mother and straight up kill his father. Straight up kill his father in outproducing him or becoming different or more than his father was. That's the struggle of being a man. And so the tough thing, like going back to the movie gladiator with Commodus who followed Marcus Aurelius, the greatest emperor of Rome who ruled at the height, it's hard to follow that act. That's the best act. So his way of trying to beat his dad was create the games and the gladiators and Commodus was just an unprincipled man.
Stefan: 30:18 And Marcus Aurelius studied with the greatest men of his time and he was a great philosopher and we still read his book. Marcus Aurelius's meditations today. And I quote meditations over and over again in Hard Times Create Strong Men. I don't quote Commodus, the Prince of the King, he really sucked. So at the end of the day, but there are guys who win. For example, Alexander the Great, he inherited the greatest army in the world, the Macedonian army, and he conquered the whole world by 30.
Stefan: 30:50 Donald Trump is like an Alexander the Great, and if you go to his Trump Tower, he has got Alexander the Great art everywhere because he is the Alexander the Great. He inherited the best real estate company and he built, he got world domination out of that. He's the President of the United States. Officially on paper, he's the most powerful man in the world. Under the table, maybe there's more powerful people. But that's an Alexander the Great story where he inherited the greatest opportunity and made it even greater. So if you're a rich kid or if you're a son of a king, you got to look to Alexander the great or a guy like Donald Donald Trump who's building that Alexander the Great story.
Jon: 31:29 Absolutely. No matter what your opinion is of Donald Trump, you've got to admit that he has become the most famous person in the world. I mean the guy infamous or famous, however you like them or not. I mean the guy has done more than anyone else. I mean the guy lives off of media. He plays the media like a fiddle.
Stefan: 31:48 Well, and you know what? Fake news will never admit that. The fake news will never admit that. So that's why people are divided on him because there's fake news. And that's just simply it. I mean, the guy is, he's the real deal. He's a self made billionaire for God's sakes. The guy's the real deal in every way. So real that he shouldn't even be in politics. Because you look at all the other scumbags and lowlifes and degenerates and whores in politics. He's not like them at all.
Jon: 32:15 Right.
Stefan: 32:16 And it's amazing because fake news out there will actually beat the shit out of him every day. And he just keeps on winning. So good for you fake news.
Jon: 32:27 Absolutely. Do you think he'll win again in 2020. I know this definitely affects the mortgage business.
Stefan: 32:31 Yes, absolutely. A hundred a hundred million percent because there's a power vacuum on the other side of the table. The Democrats have no good leader. And there's a bunch of guys fighting for power over there.
Jon: 32:42 It's divided. Yep.
Stefan: 32:43 And Donald is more famous than ever. More powerful than ever. And he's doing great things. He's doing the country a great service. And he absolutely will get a second term. So some people say he's a time traveler. There's a book out there. What is it, the last president from the year 1800 that says he's the last president. But who knows, man. I mean I have my own thoughts in my book Hard Times Create Strong Men on that. But Donald Trump is certainly a strong man and he certainly is a fighting back against some of the bullshit out there.
Jon: 33:16 Definitely man. I agree. So I'm going to read your book, we're going to do a giveaway with our listeners and viewers. And we're going to get your book out there to our community and I appreciate you coming on. Is there anything you want to leave us with as far as I got from this. Get yourself a coach, pony up the money. Don't be a wimp and say I can't afford it. Get yourself a good coach, make 50 calls or more a day. Don't be someone that says you can't do it because you can. And be like Alexander the Great. Is there anything else that you think that we're missing that we could, that our community could thrive off of. You've got to hustle, get your book, because I'm sure that's going to help but, but any last words you want to leave us with?
Stefan: 34:02 Yeah. Get the book at a hardtimesstrongmen.com, that's hardtimesstrongmen.com and anybody can win if they put their mind to it but only so many choose to do that. And that's the real difference is you can choose to be a champion or you can choose to not. So respect the grind and go to hardtimesstrongmen.com.
Jon: 34:23 Well, thanks for coming on and like, share, and subscribe everybody and we'll see you on the next episode.
Jon: 34:29 Thank you for listening to our podcast. If you guys are looking for more content like this, we have a FundLoan's YouTube channel where we give away more tips, secrets and origination ideas. You can also email us at infoatfunloans.com and if you've made it this far, I think it's safe to say you like our content. So please subscribe, share and send us your scenarios. Let's fund loans together.